So at the moment there is a lot of hype about getting Pole Dancing into the Olympics (Check out my recent post), but do you think as an active “doer” within the industry we actually have the right mentality and “togetherness” for it?
In one word, No.
This is my opinion from the 6 years I have been teaching Pole Dancing in London. Some of you may disagree, but I would favour the majority would be sitting on the same bench as me. I have lost count the amount of times I have come across the term “Pole Politics”. Every industry is the same and we are no different, but as we are in the “Olympic Limelight”, we may as well talk about it. Where do you stand? What is your view? Are you in it to win it, or just plain naffed off with all the silliness? (Please comment below!).
A lot of people will hold their tongue as they don’t want to offend or ruin friendships but a few will speak out and potentially ostracize themselves. Each country is the same and we all have our own little groups we shelter in, and have spokes people for. There is no doubt in my mind that we have different factions in the UK, some quiet and willing just to get on with their own business and some who are detrimental to others. For me business relationships have come and gone and unfortunately so have friendships, which is the most upsetting part.
It seems that a lot of people over the Pole Dancing globe want to out do their colleagues and be top dog. We will always have natural born leaders and their sheep, but how they lead them is a different matter. “Jedi or Sith?!” I hear you cry from the bench (ok maybe not), but that’s sometimes how it feels, a good side and a dark side. Why people have to choose I don’t know, just heed what the Stormtrooper said “You can go about your business, move along”. (ok seriously I have no idea why I am quoting Star Wars!!) I am lucky to know a lot of people in the pole dancing industry and I hear (not made up!!) comments flying around all the time (actually, yes my apologies, some made up!). Once a Rookie I would listen to the elders who had been in the industry and as a “sheep” would kinda follow but after so many years and admittedly after removing a few sharp items from my back, you start to listen to your own advice.
Whilst the Good & the Dark side both have their reasons it’s the people that have the “Actually you know what, F*%K them and their silliness, I’m just going to grow my business and do it my way”. To you, I commend thee.
So I open it up… where do you stand?
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Edited on Saturday 13th March
Thanks to all who have taken time out to comment
Carly Wilford – Make Me Fabulous Tiny – Candy & Chrome Tak Miranda – Pole Affinity Joel for the Link at PumpsMag in New York Faye – Spinderella Pole Dancing Pippa – Polenastics Iina – 7th Heaven Dance Studio Jamie – DG Polers Judith Felicity – Bradford Pole Fitness Alena Downs – PoleJunkies Fairy – Pole Progession Mary Ellyn Weissman – Empowerment Through Exotic Dance Michaela Roberts – NSPDS Jess Leanne Norris – JLN Pole Fitness
I love pole dancing and everything it stands for… however i have been at the centre of the “Poletics” you talk about. For months i found myself getting upset and frustrated with the situation i was in, upset by the underhanded behaviour from so called friends and then one day i decided to take back my power. I decided to run my business my way and shut myself off from any of the day to day industry rubbish.
My business and everything it stands for has transformed and so have my students. We are all out to achieve the same thing and until more of us break away and decide not the feed this negative beast then things will never change. I am now in a Make Me Fabulous bubble, focused on my students, my instructors and teaching damn good pole classes. The rest really doesn’t matter. If you love something from the heart it will always grow…. no matter what!
In the words of my company slogan… “You were born with wings – don’t ever forget to fly!”
Stay happy guys – the world needs us x x x
Jesus…..It’s like you just spent a day in my head!
Only thing I would maybe contribute to this is possibly that within the industry, I can see maybe 3 or so ‘Generations’ of pollers.
The old schoolers….the ones that had been doing it years and were among the first in the country to set up a school (and thus claiming their ‘turf’).
The ‘Second Gen Pollers’ – I would stick myself in this category as I came from the first students of the Old Schoolers.
The ‘Third Gen’ – The students of the students!
As I said, I put myself in the second gen box I suppose, luckily I come from a generation of ‘RESPECT MA ELDERS’ and I applied this to pole. Like you, I spent 3/4 years listening and learning and humbeling myself to these people. You don’t push your luck, you don’t get too big for you boots, you don’t piss these people off, and ultimately you owe them a debt of gratitude was how I ‘felt’ (or was made to feel maybe?)…..
Then the third gen came along and they don’t give a FIG for the above. In fact, I have spent a lot of time slagging the third gen off for their cowboy attitudes and lack of general respect and knowledge for pole, they are picking it up and setting up in minimal time, with minimal learning, and treating it as any old exercise class and don’t understand why anyone would be upset by that. Wait til the 4th gen comes girls! LOL
BUT…
The Old Schoolers…. they too spend a lot of time slagging the third gen off and telling the second gen ‘the way it should be’…. BUT if you think about it, the Old Schoolers were the biggest rookies of us all!
They didn’t have ETM before they taught…they invented that later on…..they didn’t all of them have years of fitness or dance backgrounds under their belt….they just knew how to work a pole….they didn’t think twice about setting up in their bedrooms at first…coz there was no other way until the idea of pole schools came about. Insurance? Health n safety? First aid? Poppycok!
So…you can’t really listen to them too hard, what we forget is they may be SETTING the standards now (which is an important job), but they never had these standards in the first place…soooo….?.
I also see that the second gen pollers were ‘tolorated’ by the old schoolers, but now there’s a third gen – some of them seem to be going a bit ‘Holier than thou’, or dictatorish….telling folk what is or isn’t acceptable in pole.
This is fine as a productive part of the development process but when it get’s local and people fall out, it turns to turf wars and the market becomes very competative as you said – schools trying to out do eachother in order to be the best.
I don’t know if this is right or wrong.
It feels like crap! ….but ultimately, through this we are all improving our businesses, knowledge and skills all the time as a result…and that can’t be a bad thing?
Bitchiness is a terrible side affect though, and unavoidable at times as a result.
I’d say yes, it definately exists….but is it a hinderance or a developmental process? WHO KNOWS. But after 4 years of being in the industry in some way, I’m ready to stick my head down, get on with my own work, my own business, not be dictated to, but not disrespectful either if I can avoid it….It’s all just business at the end of the day.
I run my business ‘my way’, yet listen & watch & learn from others but ultimately you’ve got to do what’s right for you & learn from your own mistakes too, & not be afraid to admit when your wrong.
I try not to get too involved in all the pole politics, although obviously you can’t escape them! Yes, I hold my views on certain things but do not go out looking for an arguement!
Pole for the Olympics- well it needs heaps more ground work work before that’ll ever happen! It’s still realtively new to the fitness industry & still struggles of being accepted by society. But yes, I would like to see it recognised as an olympic event, (oneday!) but would be curious as to how this would be done! Would we lose the dance aspect? I love this part, it makes the performance!
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When you say “3 generations of poler’s” do you just mean instructors or all people who pole?
Going by your layout if you mean all people who pole then I’d be a 3rd gen and have a load of respect for all other polers and do “give a fig” about respect and gratitude to people who offer me advice and help, esp those over the interweb who take the time to look a photos or videos and give pointers.
I am still a n00b poler and even I have noticed the politics.
I admit when pole in olympics was first mentioned I thought “cool now I won’t have to keep explaining that I’m not learning just how to take my clothes off while leaning on a pole”, but now I’m thinking with so many communities, groups, “official” lists, endorsed schools etc that as a whole pole is still too scattered and at odds. A case of too many chiefs and not enough indians maybe?
And if this post makes no sense – thats what happens when you try to skive work while the manager is in the office with you :p
I tend to keep myself away from any industry politics, I do not feel as though I am deep enough into it to get involved with any of the silliness. I have been dancing for 4 1/2 years and I do it because I love it and I teach because I like passing that same buzz onto other people.
The way I see it is so many of my students are happy to do a 6 week course to give themselves a bit of confidence and be able to strut their stuff should they encounter a pole in a nightclub and if that is what they want to do then great I am happy to show them moves to that extent but equally I have girls completely hooked and they get their buzz from achieving new and wonderful acrobatic moves.
I know I am capable of doing and teaching these moves and although I do not have a piece of paper to say so (yet) that does not make me any less competent. I learned from some great teachers and spent a good 4 years training and perfecting my moves before deciding to teach however I do feel like people frown upon those who are not “qualified” to teach however there are people who have this qualification that they have acheived from a 3 day course and yet are more respected within the industry which to me does not make sense. I hated doing my ETM it was irrelevant in so many ways and I hate teaching aerobics! Experience accounts for a lot when it comes to dance. That said to comply I will be getting my pole qual (when I have some money- so broke!!)
Anyway we all have our own styles and that what makes us all unique, I am not sure I would like a regimented industry where every technique is the same I like the fact we all put our own individual spin on it.
Keep doing what you love guys, keep it real and keep out of the drama!
Stir it up AJ! =0] I think we all just have to watch our ethics. Carly and Tiny made some excellent points (and some controversial ones too!). Concentrating on what you are doing as a business and making sure students are safe, happy and kept away from the controversy is all really the best we can do.
It would be nice to work in a bubble to avoid the poleatics but that’s just not going to work when we all need each other to progress our skills, and with so much more student sharing taking place. There are some fantastic polers out there including the lovely Carly (we teach pole in neighbouring counties) that you can rely on to respect this fledgling industry, and I think it’s those people that we need to concentrate on and NOT the negative/poleatical polers/instructors/schools.
As for the Olympics, I commented on this previously, but I don’t think the world is ready for it just yet. I love this industry and love the art of pole but I am constantly offended at the ridicule that is associated with this Olympic pole drive. I don’t want to hear any more jibes about ‘the ratings for the Olympics going up if we get strippers in there’, or ‘how will they mark the dancers? By how many $ bills fall out of their leotard’ etc….
Once pole fitness and pole dancing and stripping are even more separated as art forms and disciplines, then perhaps pole will gain the respect required to be a part of the Olympics (although it has seriously improved since I found pole in 2006). Until then, we are just a bunch of ‘dappy strippers having a blond moment’.
It’s the same stereotyping as darts… Fat middle aged men with fags, beer belly’s and pints of larger do darts, why would they be classed as respected athletes and be a part of the Olympics? An example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2006/oct/03/post217
Same for us, pole is still stereotyped and associated as part of the sex industry, why would the sex industry be part of the Olympics? I think when I can answer the question ‘so what do you do?’ with ‘ I teach Pole Fitness’ to the guy at the bar and his girlfriend WITHOUT them both looking me up and down (expecting me to suddenly be 20 yrs younger and my hair to grow) her putting a protective hand on his knee and him raising an eyebrow, tilting his head slightly before saying ‘You are a pole dancer?!’ then the world may be ready to accept Olympic standard pole without taking the p!ss.
Great breakdown, Tiny. Even though I was one of the first to set up a school in my country I consider myself second gen – I learned from Fawnia and KT through DVDs and the internet and although it is nearly not the same as learning in person, it’s not like I came up with the entire concept without their help (although I did not receive the help in person).
Honestly, my solution to all this? I keep friendly and neutral with everyone but just do my own thing. I have a lot of pole acquaintances but very few pole friends.
Even within my studio pretty much every instructor has their own view of what pole dancing is *really* about and how it should be taught. And as long as they’re not doing anything dangerous I encourage the instructors working for me to use their own style and preferences when teaching. We just say “other instructors can do it differently but on my class please do it my way.”
Unfortunately of course others are not necessarily always so civil. I just try to stay neutral and distant towards the people I don’t agree with, but I’ve never seen arguments in the pole world “won” by trying to force somebody to join your side. Because everyone thinks they’re the Jedi.
Re: Olympics: I view this simply as an extreme fitness / gymnastics form of the sport. It doesn’t have to take away from other styles of pole dance. While I’m sure sooner or later there will be one, two or three bigger organizations who have their own concepts of what pole dance is it doesn’t mean that other styles can not be taught.
Pippa, I can share students with you and happily stay out of politics.
Iv not been conviced in the last year how getting very deeply involved in the pole world will help me evolve, as it did the exact opposite so far.
I can chat to anyone in `the pole world` happily, if anything gossipy comes into the convo I can reply with `Oh, well, I dunno anything about that`. Simples. We can ALL do it.
Anyway, the pole world is ffing hideous mainly because:
1) Most dance forms are ego boosting, especially when ya good at it, throw in a bit of sexuality and it starts to get precious
2) Pole is still kinda new, some people feel they `own it` in some way
3) Pole is an art form,while at the same times its now a business involving the safety of the public- getting told how to express your art form all the time it gets painful.
Everyone is pole dancing with open wounds.
Jamie…
QUOTE “Everyone is pole dancing with open wounds.”
Love it!
Share students, no politics… Perfik! =o]
I love reading all this lovely stuff. Thought I’d add a student’s point of view to the mix. Been a student for a few years now. What am I doing it for? It’s fun! It’s empowering! It’s moved from the gentleman’s club to the dance studio and gone way beyond sexual exploitation to dance/fitness that makes you stronger physically and mentally! For me as a student I’m not moving in the pole-itical circles but even I’m aware they exist as old students become new instructors with ever advancing speed and the world of pole increases it’s reach and poplularity. Pole IS booming and I’m sure that as either first – second – or third generation pole folk – it’s easy to think that being great at tricks means you can start your own classes but it takes a lot more than that to be a real teacher and we as students need to be sure that the teachers we have are in it for the right reasons. It’s a huge responsibility that for the most part is taken seriously. How you teach your classes is up to you….It’s evolved in the time I’ve been learning – and for example not everyone in the gymnastics world wants to do the asymmetric bar – some want to do the beam – same here – everyone has their own concept of what Pole is to them and each student chooses based on whether or not they like the concept. Sharing students is good as long as there is a huge amount of professional courtesy and no poaching. At the end of the day Pole has only just been reborn in the mainstream world – It’s evolving and becoming more than just ‘Pole’….It’s fitness – It’s dance – It’s gymnastic acrobatics – It’s still in strip clubs too – so let it evolve a bit more and find your own niche in the pole world and each enjoy your concept (safely and certified ideally so we students don’t fall off and hurt ourselves!).
Olympics will come I have no doubt in the end….but this baby needs to be more than a toddler before that happens! Pole really does rock and so do all our teachers!
pole politics are ridiculous, I have tried being everyones friend and it simply doesnt work. There are always people gunning for you and those who come to you for lessons, poach your students and then enjoy publicly slating you on social networking sites….too many ego’s, too many women and far too many biatches to overcome. Just because i cant do a one handed triple thingymebob whilst blindfolded doesnt mean i am fair game for others intent on inciting pole politics (its not actually politics its nasty playground jealous immature behaviour).
I prefer to sit on the fence and keep myself to myself, it would be like commiting public suicide business wise if you get drawn in to it all.
pole in the olympics ?? what a crock of shit !! ridiculous idea
newbies and students your naivity is wonderful to read, such innocence!
I really wish I had that innocence but having had my fingers burnt and witnessed the witch hunt between fellow teachers (who call themselves human beings) people laying claim to “this product” or “this move” or “I invented this concept” it is horrible. As students make sure you stay in your cocoon of pole love and ignore the politics (if you ever encounter them be careful).
I believe that any idea that is relatively new and exciting is going to undergo an inundation of people who want to do it – get good at it – and then want to start up on their own. Pole is getting bigger and as a result there are more and more classes starting up…more and more people teaching – some of them more ruthless than others and some of them more able to teach than others. People have had their ‘fingers burnt’ I have no doubt….but then all the more reason to try very hard to maintain integrity for everyone. I’m sure some people have invented moves and concepts and hope to be recognised for them and not have them ‘stolen’ or students ‘poached’. All the more reason to create a pole community that works with integrity and where teachers are not in any kind of ‘witch hunt’…..if not….then why bring pole out of the strip clubs and try and turn it into a fitness and dance regime that is really confidence boosting – really popular and getting everyone off the couch? It’s making women feel better about themselves in a lot of ways (I know men are doing it too!) so then maybe it’s a case of trying to stop the ‘witch hunts’ somehow – keeping healthy competition alive and making ‘pole dancing’ for fitness/fun even more mainstream.
Ooooh yes….curling is in the Olympics….what’s that all about for Gawd’s sake so why not Pole????
Seriously….I’m not totally naive but I see the need to keep the nastiness away – and I know I am not a teacher and if I had been shafted by anyone I’d be seriously mad but surely you have to start somewhere to obliterate the ‘poletics’ and make the industry less competitive and more ‘sharing’?
Or am I really just pole loved up????
Gawd I don’t envy you all…. just keep teaching us thanks!
Hmm…interesting..
If I follow the breakdown above..I am definitely a 1st Gen Poler…I have been poling since the early/mid 90′s. Unfortunately, the politics were around then…just a bit different form of competition…who can do it better instead of who is a better teacher/school.
Mentality wont change…it is a human mentality…and unless we become “no longer human”, we will face this always!
Honestly…stick all the 1st Gen Polers in a room…they could learn from each other.
Then stick the 2nd Gen Polers in the same room…compare…there is a huge difference.
1st gen wants this to work…and wants it bad..I know, that is me!
2nd gen…lots (not all) got into it because of the fun…there was no money in it yet!
3rd gen…loves what they do, but wouldnt have touched it before it came mainstream! 75% of my students are quoted stating they would have NEVER done pole dancing before it was popular, because it was just strippers doing it!
Realistically, pole is still an infant..even if I have been doing it almost 20 years, and teaching for over 10.
If you were a student in university…..
Would you snub your professor?
Would you tell them they have NO CLUE what they are talking about?
Would you steal your professors work..and claim it to be your own?
Would you steal curriculum from your uni and re-write it and claim it to be your own?
Would you look at your prof assistant, and say you are not a professional, because you are not fully certified/educated yet?
This is exactly what is happening in the pole industry.
Personally, I am tired of hearing I am a know it all.
Tired of hearing I dont know what I am talking about, because I was just a stripper!
Tired of being slammed because I want an industry I LOVE to succeed.
Tired of being told what I love will be turned into something so far from what it was!
I understand growing, advancement, progress, development, and change. But, it should be done in baby steps not leaps and bounds!
I am not the best…was not the best…probably will never be the best…But I was one of the first. I broke ground for the rest…along side many others!
I take pride in that! I take pride in the fact that I am able to assist the 2nd 3rd, 4th & 5th gen polers!
I am a true PoleJunkie! I open my arms, studio and classes, knowledge, training and experience to everyone…regardless of who they are or where they come from. I share in hopes that this industry does NOT take a turn for the worst and become what was predicted to be 10 years ago….a fad that will fade!
I have assisted studios by giving instructors class structure, move progression based on physical development, and assistance when ever asked. What do I get in return..see notes above.
It truly needs to change its mentality..of me, mine, first, best, #1!
We are all in this for the same reason…why can we not all band together for pole instead of split because of personal intentions??
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I would consider myself 2nd gen according to Tiny’s comments and have to admit to sometimes feeling that the joy of pole is sometimes over shadowed by the politics. As others have said, with pole in it’s infancy there will be struggles and tbh I’m not sure time will do anything to allieviate those struggles.
In an ideal world we would all just get along but that doesn’t happen in the real world so do we really expect it to happen within the pole industry (predominantly consisting of women!)?
The whole turf war thing and sharing students does make me giggle though. I actually advise my students to learn with as many different teachers as possible. We all have something different to offer as pole dancing is such a unique and individual thing and I think this lies at the heart of most disagreements. We are all just so passionate about it.
I wonder how aerobics instructors cope with student sharing and other teachers on their ‘turf’. There still seem to enough students to go around in those circumstances – why can’t it be the same for pole?
Every industry has politics! Life is all about politics…even neighborhoods have politics. I don’t think it will ever go away because it’s human nature.
I think one should ask themselves however, what they contribute to those politics? How many people can say that they never talk against anyone else? That they never judge another person or just carry on with their own business?
How many can say “I will support and be friends with ANYONE as long as their cause does not affect me or my personal beliefs”?
Who can say they are able to look past it when people who’s opinions conflict with their own and still work alongside them and support them when their visions are the same?
Who can say that they’ve disagreed with someone in some major way but are able to put that aside and work together if they find they have a common goal?
Who can say that it’s not about your friends but about who YOU are that matters to me?
If you’re really interested in ending politics or at least limiting it within your life, you do have the ability to make an impact!
I have really enjoyed reading everyone’s comments and personal viewpoints. It’s fun to have the odd pointless rant that solves no particular issue or function.
However, if we are actually looking for a solution that will create long term balance and harmony within this Industry, I can make the following suggestions;
- no past problems exist in the present, so let past politics/gripes go…what’s the point in harbouring resentments. You’re only nurturing your own destructive ‘pain bodies’.
- do not allow your own personal happiness to depend on anyone or any situation. Too many people in this industry are worried about what their peers think of them. Who gives a f***!
- enjoy the moment. It’s the NOW that’s important. As an Industry, let’s not worry about the future, it really isn’t that complicated.
The NSPDS is a group that involves most of the UK Pole Industry’s main players within its Management Team. We all work really well together. If you’d like to be part of this(everyone welcome) please check us out on http://www.nspds.co.uk and join our Facebook group for updates.
Michaela
xxx
I agree with a lot of the above. There are 2 ways I look at it, firstly whether I’m right or wrong, there is a divide between the ladies who have been doing it years and the new comers. The ‘old school’ did create this new craze of pole dance/fitness and without them we wouldn’t be doing it so I think it is only natural they want to ‘claim turf’. On the other hand if the new comers didn’t join in it would faze out eventually, so what would be the point in an Olympic sport? Without competition there would be no drive to progress and all these new outstanding moves probably would have never been created.
I’m middle of the road with it, don’t really know many on a personal level but great to pass a few comments to each other and see how people are getting on in the pole world. With or without it doesn’t affect the running of my studio.
Take away politics and the arguments and look at why we all enjoy it so much..
That’s what makes ‘Pole’ so special; don’t let that be clouded by judgement.
I think there is a lot of work to be done to get it into the Olympics as there is nothing set in stone for the best way to do a move or even the name of it. I think this is when people will have to pull together to move it forward. Then again not everyone does pole for the same reasons, it’s a difficult one!
Everything Micheala said!